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Dieses Thema hat 12 Antworten
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 Literarisches X-tett & Philosophisches
convulsive_flesh_machine Offline




Beiträge: 2.982

22.06.2006 16:44
Das Lügner-Paradox antworten
leute, was denkt ihr hierüber:


ein mann von kreta sagt, dass alle leute von kreta lügen.

thomas Offline




Beiträge: 1.458

22.06.2006 17:53
Das Lügner-Paradox antworten
das ist doch gelogen!!!

thomas Offline




Beiträge: 1.458

22.06.2006 18:01
Das Lügner-Paradox antworten
und bevor björn sich jetzt wieder eins feixt:

das würde ja heißen, dass alle kretaner die wahrheit sagen, also auch er, wenn er sagt, dass sie alle lügen.

warum wohl sollte es sonst ein paradoxonb sein?

aber um mal philosophisch zu werden:
ein paradoxon ist es nur, wenn mit lüge das gegenteil der wahrheit gemeint ist, was ja im allgemeinen auch der fall ist.

convulsive_flesh_machine Offline




Beiträge: 2.982

22.06.2006 18:51
Das Lügner-Paradox antworten
ist das mal eine knacknuss?! herrlich dies.


thomas schrieb:
"das würde ja heißen, dass alle kretaner die wahrheit sagen, also auch er, wenn er sagt, dass sie alle lügen."
... schließt du dies aus meinem posting (der o.g. lügen-prämisse) oder ist dies deine anwendung des paradoxon-begriffes auf die lügen-prämisse? anyway, was meinst du mit "das"?

"ein paradoxon ist es nur, wenn mit lüge das gegenteil der wahrheit gemeint ist, was ja im allgemeinen auch der fall ist."
... ja, lüge im sinne von unwahrheit... was ja im allgemeinen auch der fall ist.

convulsive_flesh_machine Offline




Beiträge: 2.982

22.06.2006 18:53
Das Lügner-Paradox antworten
wie man's dreht und wendet, es öffnen sich neue konflikte, deshalb paradox. das macht echt spaß und alles total formal.

convulsive_flesh_machine Offline




Beiträge: 2.982

23.06.2006 15:25
Das Lügner-Paradox antworten
nimmt man diese lügner-aussage, so ergeben sich zwei möglichkeiten:
(a) er spricht die wahrheit
(b) er spricht die unwahrheit
... vielmehr geht nicht. ein urteil kann nur wahr oder falsch sein.


zu (a) wenn er die wahrheit spricht und tatsächlich alle menschen von kreta lügen, so ist seine aussage falsch, denn er kommt ja auch von kreta und lügt ja in diesem falle nicht. also mindestens einer lügt dann nicht. die aussage ist hier falsch. mit anderen worten, wenn die aussage wahr wäre, dann müsste er lügen.

zu (b) wenn er die unwahrheit spricht, demnach also tatsächlich lügt, so ist seine aussage eine lüge in jedem fall und hat mit dem gegebenen, also den menschen von kreta, nichts zu tun.


egal wie, die aussage wird und wird nicht wahr.

convulsive_flesh_machine Offline




Beiträge: 2.982

01.06.2007 15:16
Das Lügner-Paradox antworten
der satz "alle menschen von kreta lügen" ist genau dann wahr, wenn alle menschen aus kreta lügen. also ist die aussage falsch.


sprachliche paradoxien entstehen, wenn sich eine sprache mit ihren semantischen prädikaten (z.b. "wahr") auf sich selbst bezieht. aus diesem grund empfielt Alfred Tarski (warschauer philosoph und mathematiker) eine sprachhierarchie. es gibt eine objektsprache (das ist der ausdruck in den anführungsstrichen) und eine metasprache (das ist die sprache, in der man über den ausdruck der objektsprach spricht). der punkt ist, daß semantische prädikate in der objektsprache vermieden werden und ausschließlich in der metasprache verwendung finden. insofern entgeht man dem selbstbezug innerhalb einer sprache, der dafür verantwortlich ist, daß sprachliche paradoxe entstehen.





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chanelbags Offline



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01.04.2014 04:10
#8 RE: Das Lügner-Paradox antworten

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wengdongdong Offline



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#10 wengdongdong antworten

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wengdongdong Offline



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#11 wengdongdong antworten

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Beiträge: 132

08.06.2017 15:34
#12 RE: Das Lügner-Paradox antworten

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